Good and evil

Discussion in 'Politics, Debate, Religion, etc' started by BumptyTime, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. BumptyTime

    BumptyTime Drawing Blood

    Jan 6, 2018
    There is something which I have thought about at times, and I can only come to one conclusion. This place seems quite suitable for such a topic.
    To begin, I lost my faith in God at the age of twenty-four due to a little thing, which was the last straw. I was raised in a religious family and my father was a preacher. Because I didn't want to hurt anyone I have never told my family. That's another story.
    At any rate here is the thing: I believe if there is no God, then it follows there is nothing good or evil. Such notions mean
    nothing, and the world simply is what it is in all its perceived beauty and ugliness.
    Humans are highly evolved animals and actions can be easily be tied back to animal behavior. A man who strives for wealth, for example, is merely being a successful hunter, and he or she will have the better shelter, food, and clothing, and attract the best mates.
    With no good or evil, why do most of us stay in line? Because Might is Right, of course. If the poor man takes a woman by force the might of the police comes down upon him. With enough wealth and influence, another fellow can do the same and often escape the consequences.
    Whether there is a God or not, I think we have to believe might is right. One can do whatever they are big enough to get away with.
    But is there good and evil where there is no God, or your particular deity? I say no.
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  2. Outlaw

    Outlaw Co-Founder/Former Co-owner Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2015
    Well, good and evil don't necessarily have to equate with any deity/religion.
    Father likes this.
  3. Vael

    Vael Death Head

    Apr 18, 2017
    You don't need a god who say what is good or evil... Good or evil is a simply label. It's all based on respect for others and yourself, or in other words, it's a matter of survival of humanity... If we conduct ourselves with respect and integrity for others, the human species will continue to evolve.
    Cestlavie and Father like this.
  4. Father

    Father Super Duper Moderator Staff Member

    Aug 21, 2017
    Window Licker
    The golden rule or the ethic of reciprocity has existed in all cultures in one way or another forever.
    The basic principal of “Do not do to someone else, that which you yourself find repugnant” was quoted by Confucius. “Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself” as early as 5 centuries before Jesus’s sermon on the mount. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
    It is part of our evolutionary ethics. Had we not followed this, our ancestors would have died out. Being “evil” created no benefit to the collective whole.
    Whereas to do “good” created huge benefits.
    There is good and evil. We create it.
    Our morals are not given to us by an external source, we have created those through our evolution as a species that relies on a healthy community surrounding us to survive.
  5. OP

    BumptyTime Drawing Blood

    Jan 6, 2018
    I understand what you, @Vael and @Outlaw are saying. My thought is that if there are no gods - and I don't know for certain of course - there is nothing good or evil. We did create the ideas.We cannot survive if one could simply have free reign to kill others or take their stuff.
    Before we had precise language, primitive groups understood there had to be order. A man could not randomly slay a fellow hunter because it hurt the group.
    If I say, in a primitive time, 'You cannot take someone's food,' eventually somebody says 'Why not? I am bigger than them.' And I say 'Uh...if you do then a scary thing will get you.' And then we got ourselves a god.
    I think most people here were raised well as far as respect and empathy and compassion. Even the heathens and godless;)
    Even if I was absolutely certain there was no God(Christian) or other gods, I would still be my mostly decent self.
    @Vael, as far as humans evolving, you might find the transhumanism movement interesting, or frightening.
    Vael and Father like this.
  6. Alovesteal

    Alovesteal DA's Resident Medical Guru

    Feb 19, 2017
    Louisville, KY
    It's basic reasoning that humans were blessed with through evolutions. It's the fact that humans unlike any other animal in the world are capable of reasoning and logical thinking. We've created the idea of good and bad over time with law and order and ethical ideals and we've done it unrelated to religion. Reasoning belongs to no god- it's a thought process and a mechanism for survival. I believe perception is reality and what is good to one human may not be good to another and what is considered evil to one human may not be considered evil to another. You don't see dogs torturing other dogs as a punishment or other mammals committing genocide etc. Can you imagine if good and evil didn't exist: Hitler and Stalin and other sociopaths alike weren't wrong in their actions.. perhaps good and evil are more fluid in their meaning and reflect on actions, not people. in conclusion; humans cannot evolve or survive without the ideals of good and evil. However we can survive without religion.
    Kevbal, BumptyTime and Father like this.
  7. KingOfYou

    KingOfYou Drawing Blood

    Dec 19, 2017
    United States
    "Logical thinking..."

    You're hot.

    If you lived within 50 miles of me, i'd be there within the hour or less. You don't even know. My car is on half a tank right now. And i'm not joking, I would leave out tonight, without socks, shoes or a shirt. I don't even care. I'd walk the remainder of the way if I ran out of gas, wouldn't be the first time. (alas, you're about 300 miles from me, it's a shame really. Like many things in life, fffffffuark. You so smexyyy etc)

    Not too logical is it? I'm human, aren't I?

    Underneath all of this, BS.. the professional illusion we put on, beneath all of the games and such we play. We're just animals. The only thing stopping us from reverting back to our NATURAL nature(?) is the risk of being locked in a cage until the end of our lives. The only thing keeping rape rates from exploding.. is what might happen to rapists if caught. We're no better than animals.

    In 2 arenas, humans show their true nature. That is, war and sex. All bets are off, there is no more saving face, we all expose who we really are when it benefits us (in your defense, a benefit of evolution perhaps)

    Animals committing genocide:

    I read an article a few years back about a pack of lions who were damn near sociopathic, they would conquer and take over large swathes of territory, often times resorting to brutal ruthless tactics to maintain it. They also had the best of mates. A YT comment likened them to the mafia in the animal world. They had the most territory controlled by any lion, on record.

    Constantly had to fight off lions trying to usurp their authority, being ruthless was their only way to have free time to shit, fuck and kill more lions.

    Let me repeat, this particular pack of lions kept taking over more and more territory until they controlled the largest empire of territory controlled by lions known to man. One lion of the pride killed 40 lions, I am told there were some lions in this pride who had killed over 100. Is that not a sort of genocide?

    The leader of the group (they all had nicknames, I can find the link for you if you like) would kill the cubs of rival prides, he would mercilessly rip apart the cubs, fight and kill the male lions and rape the female lions/mating/impregnating them etc., not too rare.

    If a human did that, you'd cringe and say this is "sooooooo evaaaaallllll litrlly heetlr"

    But I am told this lion would eat his 'enemies' alive.. I am told this is unheard of in the lion kingdom (i'm no expert, someone feel free to correct me)

    Don't think for a second that humans wouldn't do the same if there were no military or police. We're no different from the dogs we keep chained up outside, we're all the same.

    Were Native Americans evil for scalping whites?

    Are Americans evil for what we are doing in the Middle East?

    Is ISIS evil?

    Am I evil for cutting the head of a lizard off?

    Are you evil for stepping on an ant? Killing a snake?

    Is cutting a tree down to use as heat, evil? I am told trees, plants etc. are all living things. No?

    Is it evil for a fox to eat a cat? What if the fox did indeed prolong its suffering as it believed doing so would make it more fulfilling..

    If you were trapped on a snowed in mountain, you ran out of food and water.. and you seen a 4 or 8 year old girl, warm, healthy etc.. come into your cave, what would you do?

    Remember now; you're literally starving to death, you may not find a mammal/animal for another X months, you'll freeze to death by then... you would do what anyone would do.. it doesn't make you evil, in this scenario.

    Not everything is black and white.

    I believe actions and people just are.. labels are just that. Labels. Whether you shoot a deer and kill it quick or torture before killing it, the end result is the same: it's dead. So what is the point in making the distinction?

    Oh, I was humane. I cut its head off so it didn't feel me gutting it, yay me, pat me on the back. I such a good saint!

    Good and evil are labels we created to make ourselves seem special and unique when in reality, we are the most dangerous animals on the planet. We are the most ruthless.

    Wanna see what we are really made of? Create scarcity in water, food, oil/gas, money/jobs and mates (women for men, men for women.).

    If SHTF, you'd see men and women act like ANIMALS. There'd be chaos. Think black friday is primal, you must haven't seen Brazil. That is what happens when people are crowded together.. and the population is already getting up there, we are overpopulating.. the entire world will look like Brasil if we don't do something.. like genocide, like more war. It's our only choice!

    People in prison are so damn violent due to a HUGE scarcity in mates, due to the aforementioned.. that is what we would all be like if it were not for... God. Without God, we would've destroyed ourselves long ago and never left the cave. God taught us all that we know, don't pat yourself on the back too much.

    Without God, we probably wouldn't know how to start a fire.

    Without God, you wouldn't be breathing right now. Wait, oxygen! But who put the oxygen there? Who set off the big bang, do you really think it just happened by itself.. there was no one setting the match to the candle?

    Things in nature happen because of another action, things just don't happen.

    The tree falls due to wind. The rocks erode due to rain. We have tornadoes due to XYZ. Nothing on this planet happens for no reason and without something making it do something. So why should the big bang be any different.. because it's mysterious?

    Isn't God mysterious?

    Are we uncovering the curtains on the freak-show known as reality.. are we getting closer to the treasured forbidden fruit which Adam and Eve ate of?

    Ever hear of people who surfed air on 9/11, or people who fell in a den of lions/tigers (bears llol) and somehow escaped alive? Ever hear of people who get chased by dogs.. many of them being BIG dogs, and outrunning them? Think it's impossible?

    How do you explain all of this?



    drop mic, drop mike. lel.
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  8. Alovesteal

    Alovesteal DA's Resident Medical Guru

    Feb 19, 2017
    Louisville, KY
    Excellent reply.
    Kevbal likes this.
  9. Kevbal

    Kevbal Drawing Blood

    Dec 7, 2017
    I just think "God" came about to pretty much explain things that we can't explain ourselves. It's a miracle. God did it.
    Must have been god. How else could it have happened.
    Or if we need to keep people from doing things considered bad. We can raise them and teach them of hell and if they don't fall in line that's were they are gonna go.
    Father likes this.

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